Thread: Front suspension

I have never thought of front suspension on something this heavy. It will be interesting to see what you find. What is the weight on this truck 6000 lbs? There is some guys on the board that deal with off road, and some of those 4 link suspension designs might work. what everr happens this ought to be a neat build.

I need to see a pic of exactly what you are starting with.... then I can get you a really good idea on where to look for what you are wanting. for now,
how long are you wanting the link bars?
bushings all around, or something with some flex?
how much do you plan to do with the air ride(just up-down or more)?
what style of front axle are you working with?
are you doing a 'suicide' style front, or keeping it under the frame rails?
how much weight are you dealing with up front?

I think the front end will be a lot harder than the rear, once you get a game plan going though it shouldnt be to bad.. I build a lot of linked suspensions for a lot of different things so I am more than happy to help you with anything you might need or want to know.

Thanks for the replies.
I will take pics tomorrow of where I am now.
This is a pic I took back in the summer, a before pic.

Originally Posted by ghost28

I have never thought of front suspension on something this heavy. It will be interesting to see what you find. What is the weight on this truck 6000 lbs? There is some guys on the board that deal with off road, and some of those 4 link suspension designs might work. what everr happens this ought to be a neat build.

I think you are pretty close on that 6000lb. I have stripped the truck of everything, except motor and tranny, which is a flathead six and a non synchro 4 spd.

Originally Posted by ratORbust

I need to see a pic of exactly what you are starting with.... then I can get you a really good idea on where to look for what you are wanting. for now,
how long are you wanting the link bars?
bushings all around, or something with some flex?
how much do you plan to do with the air ride(just up-down or more)?
what style of front axle are you working with?
are you doing a 'suicide' style front, or keeping it under the frame rails?
how much weight are you dealing with up front?

I think the front end will be a lot harder than the rear, once you get a game plan going though it shouldnt be to bad.. I build a lot of linked suspensions for a lot of different things so I am more than happy to help you with anything you might need or want to know.

Link bars maybe 30-32" not sure yet, maybe longer.
5/8" heim joints on each end l/r threads with weld in bungs.
Maybe 4-6" of rise on the airbags.
The front axle will be the four wheel drive axle, minus all the innards,it has a third member style, so I built a plate and bolted it down in place of the 3rd member.
I'm not sure what a suicide front is, but the axle will be the same height as the frame, and will be pulled out about 20-22" from it's stock location. The frame rails will be cut off about 12". The radiator and grill will be behind the front axle.
The weight should be 1500 about, guestimatting, calculatin, maybe, I dont really know.
There are a lot of variables involved at the moment.
I will try to get home early tomorrow and take some pics.
Thanks. Noel.

I am thinking roadster pickup. lean the windshield back , keep the fenders if possible just modify the large openings, and whatever you do don't get rid of those headlights they are like gold, but if you are putting the grille behind the axle that is a suicide style, and the fenders prolly wont work anyway. It will be one of a kind.

X2 on the roadster pickup!! that would be kicka$$- now seeing the pictures of before, I definately wouldnt push the front axle foward... if anything find an old break truck straight axle or something.. with the axle thats under there, you should be able to link it and drop it ALOT, but the pumpkin will get in the way before you can SLAM IT!

Here is a pic of my front parrallel link set up on my dodge.... it is alot bigger that what you are thinking of but it works very well! also you can see my trac bar- for a dropped truck you should try a Z style trac bar

Ghost 28, yea for sure keeping the big lights. I'm curious about why it's called suicide? I'm no to familiar with that, but I had seen a jeep that was slammed and stretched or suicided, and that's what I was going for. Kinda wanting to keep the front 4x axle for the look. The grille I plan to use is from a 43 WWII weapons carrier.



Ratorbust, that's what I was thinking on the linkage, just smaller. Lol. I like the Rockwell axle, inbuilt a front and rear steer buggy with rock wells a few years ago. Very versatile axle with the top load. Your dodge looks good. I have an 02 dodge for DD.

That looks pretty cool that way.. but it will give you a bit of fab work to get the bags mounted. it doesnt look like your frame come together in the front much either, so you would probably be better off going with a double triangulated 4-link up front! I dont see anywhere for a proper style trac bar, im sure that something would work, but i cant see it really being stable enough for a DD~ I am gonna steal one of your pics and try something though!

I was always under the impression that mounting the axle in front of the frame rail ends was 'suicide' style, which does put the frille behind the axle as well~

Yea, it's all pretty tight especially with the pumpkin in the way. I like your idea of a triangulated link front. Maybe put the triangulated on the bottom. I could bend the bottom arms to go around the front cross member.
Or, I could put the triangulated arms on top, so they meet towards the middle of the axle. That would allow me to use the top steering arm on the axle, for the drag link. The air bags I think I can fit in once I have the arms in place. I'm not looking for too much suspension travel, 4-6", I think would be plenty.

Thanks for the input.

Here is kind of what I am seeing for your front end, the blue would be an axle truss,,, and the red squares are all on the back side of the axle.truss... making the lower link bars about 8-10" longer than the uppers will help with ride quality also... bag mounts can go pretty much anywhere, just have to fab mounts where you want them! I will try to find you the actual double triangulated link angle diagram I have.. its in one of my picture folders- stay tuned!

That's cool work. I like that. I have some tubing for the link arms, I just need to get the heim joints on order. I found a shop in central Texas that sells on eBay, they have complete joint nut and bung kits for reasonably prices. I will probably order there economy kit that has 8 ends , 8 nuts, 8 bungs.
Im anxious to see the double triangulated setup. That would take some of the loose links out, IMO.LOL.
I got out the old half ton grille and set it front. It adds another level of mystery.

Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated.

here is a link that gets way to technical for me, but if you punch in all the numbers it will give you the best setup, the length of your bars, the angles of uppers and lowers...

Suspension Calculator

here are a couple of diagrams that I used in the beginning...

Good info. Thanks.
I set the WWII grille up on the frame, so I can work around it. I may have to put a bend in the top link, to get around the edge of the grille, once I'm not looking for articulation , it should be ok.

Wasn't able to work on the M37 any this weekend, I had to replace the fuel injection pump on the 02 diesel. I screwed up and pushed the little key into the big black hole. Wow, major screw up. I eventually got it out about 9:30 last night. Lol.

Thanks again, Noel.

WOW! I was supervised when I started my diesel upgrades, and I know exactly what you are talking about because the guy told me about that little key! Injection pumps are a PITA in the first place so I can only imagine how your weekend went!!! keep us updated on the progress of the M37 as you go, there are plenty of us to help with info here~

Found this on an offroad forum,, think it might work better for you...

Originally Posted by ratORbust

Found this on an offroad forum,, think it might work better for you...

You guys are coming up with some great ideas. I think I will follow along and steal, (I mean borrow) some of your ideas. Keep em coming.
John

Originally Posted by ratORbust

Found this on an offroad forum,, think it might work better for you...

I like that one.
That would be like a 3 link. Pretty simple, it looks.
Or a 3 link wishbone style.

Thanks again for the input.
I dropped the key in the hole on my second install of the day, lmao. I decided to replace the cranksensor while I had the pump off. Dooop, I forgot and installed the pump, had it torqued in ready for the lines and the light bulb went off. I decided, that wasn't too bad so I pulled the pump out , put the sensor in, slid the pump back in and ting, ting, ting. I heard the key dropping to the bottom. My blood pressure shot up. It's JD Black time. I ended up taking off the power steering pump and found the key sitting on the little ledge.

Today, I got to work on the M37.
I think I'm going to cut the windshield and frame down, so the windows will still hinge out.



Got the windshield frame soaking in wd40

Back to the suspension. Sorry for the detour.



Cut the front frame rails off about 11", on a slight angle for 2x4x3/16" tubing.



I may have to cut into the pumpkin housing to accommodate the air bags. I'm thinking of using the 2500 6" diameter bags, and as usual it's not going to fit. I think I can bend the steering arm up to clear the 6" bag.



This truck had a PTO winch, I'm thinking of powering a single cylinder air compressor off this pto. Wouldn't be able to build up air while driving, but I could pull over and let it pump, lol.

Looking good!! starting to get an idea of what will work the best yet? You could use gussets on the outside of the frame rails for the bag mounts to clear the diff, but that might get in the way of the steering also.... I've mounted my hydraulic cylinders behind the axle on the links before to get more lift/drop out of a smaller cylinder- that could work for air bags too! and it would then clear the steering and pumpkin...it would definately take a little more planning out though!

Its really starting to come together... cant wait to see which direction you take!

Good input. I appreciate it.

I'm back to a 3 link with wishbone radius arms, and a panhard bar. Yea, the air bag location is getting narrowed down to out front on the edge of the axle. That gives room for the steering arm and radius arms. For sure on the rear I'm going triangulated 4 link. I didn't have enough room out front for a triangulated linkage.
I found some rebuilable johnnie joints, that I forgot about. I will work them into the front. I've got the 2500 lb bags ordered, and recieved some heim joints today. For sure into the fun stages.

Joints


Got one work done on the rear suspension.






Cut about 12" out of the rear frame which had the bumpers, lights, and pintle hitch.
And attached it to the raised drop frame.



Started cutting out the rusty floor boards.

MASSIVE, but cool undertaking. Keep going

Looking real good!!! there is no doubt on the rear end laying flat is there! do u plan to box the rest of the frame? just something for a little extra strength.. definately plate all the angles to keep the stress from the welds, probably already know all this, just want to make sure u dont skip or forget anything~

Good advice.
I was thinking of boxing in about 24" on the rear. a little further to catch the radius arm links on the front.
Probably like you say and strap the bottom to tie in the tubing.

I recieved the air bags yesterday. Maybe during the week I'll get started on building some brackets for the bags, and start the radius link arms.
Thanks again for the interest and input.
Noel.